At the start of the Covid-19 pandemic, China faced credible accusations that it unduly delayed reporting the outbreak to the World Health Organization and manipulated that organization to deflect blame. China, moreover, has long insisted on excluding Taiwan — one of the few countries to respond successfully to the pandemic — from the WHO.

The scandal over China’s machinations, however, is an aspect of a larger, even more shameful story about the WHO’s parent organization, the United Nations.

I interviewed Hillel Neuer, a lawyer and writer, who is executive director of UN Watch, a non-governmental organization that reports on the United Nations. Our conversation began with the story that’s made the WHO notorious during the pandemic, but quickly broadened to look at the United Nations and its Human Rights Council.